Cammie Gilbert - Oceans of Slumber

Jack Mangan: Hey everyone, we are really privileged to be talking to one of the most powerful, talented, amazing vocalists on the scene today, from one of the most important bands on the scene today. It's amazing to have Cammie Gilbert from Oceans of Slumber here.
So let's get right into the new album, “Starlight and Ash.” Tell us about the meaning behind the title.

Cammie Gilbert: I really adore this album and I really like the titles and the song names. And so "Starlight and Ash" is about how we have this great, kind of, vast spectrum of human existence, that we strive throughout our lives to reach the stars, so to speak, and to be of something of merit and leave an imprint and just have a legacy. . . and that is the starlight of our lives, whether we pour ourselves into our children or our pursuits or our relationships or doing services for others, that's the starlight, that is our legacy. And then, on the opposite end, or the completed end of all that is "of Ashes to ashes and dust to dust," so to speak, that regardless of how much we strive to do or how much we accomplish, we all go back to ashes, we all go back to dust, and so we wanted it to kind of show that spectrum of life that would be found in the storylines and the lifelines that are weaved throughout the songs the with the title.

JM: I noticed listening to the album that I didn't catch that specific phrase, but I did hear references to "starlight" and "ash" throughout.

CG: Yeah, it's a Candlemass song (laughs) (sings) “From Ashes to ashes and dust to dust;" it's a bit of a vocal reference.

JM: So we know that sometimes there can be the gatekeepers who want to throw labels. Tell us how this album fits in the whole musical landscape, Metal and other musical forms.

CG: I think that what's unique about Oceans of Slumber is that we do genre bend so much. One thing that's funny to me is when I thought of music labels or when I thought of bands and genres and how people use them to categorize bands, I always took them more as like a suggestion. And as Oceans has evolved and changed and transitioned and I see how people respond, and they treat it like it's a rule. . . I mean some people treat it like it's a law and they get real upset. To me, genres are a suggestion, they're an idea so people can figure out maybe what they're going to listen to, but I guess I never put so much emphasis on what genre I thought something was when I went to listen to it. And with Oceans of Slumber we have so many influences, and I myself, I didn't learn to sing from singing Metal, you know, and I've learned to sing from a place of pure, raw emotions, and so for me, those transcend any genre. But you know, we weave in gospel and soul and country and folk and rock, and there's definitely Metal elements, but I guess with this album with the lack of heavy vocals or growls that those elements are now exclusively brought in instrumentally. And so, that makes for a different kind of tapestry of how the heaviness is conveyed on this album.

JM: For my money, some of those elements aren't necessarily there as much, but this album doesn't feel like a massive departure from the last 3 or 4. I'd love to hear your take on the evolution of Oceans from album to album.

CG: I feel like if you could look at Oceans of Slumber's trajectory sort of like a mountain climber learning to climb - - and I'm not a mountain climber, so this might be a really bad metaphor or analogy - - it's like you reach for a rock, and it's a little shaky, and it's not quite right, or your footing's not quite there, and you find a more steady place to put your hand and then you continue up and it's a series of like tests and foundation and strength underneath your grip or your footing and then you reach the top. And I feel like, from my entry into the band until now, we have always fluttered around this idea of what I feel like "Starlight and Ash" is a very concise moment of - - from "Winter" to "The Banished Heart" to the self-titled album to the EPs, everything - - and that has been finding a way to showcase my voice into finding a groove that felt unique, that felt like our own, that we had the confidence to put together in a way that only we could put together. I agree, this is not a serious departure, it's not even something radically different, and it's not very different at all from the last album, the self-titled album, which we feel like laid the groundwork for this being kind of the natural next step,
And so, to our surprise (laughs), people don't necessarily feel that way. You know, a few here and there, but. . . It's a personal experience that we are sharing when we make these albums and we put them out. And that's where we were in that time and place, during the pandemic, being shut off, being in on ourselves; it's like, that's what we sound like. That was the roots and the homelife of where we were, and I feel like this was a writing that ended up being so much more potent because it wasn't diluted with seeing a lot of other bands live, or even talking to people or seeing anybody live, and so, you know, something unique came out of that isolation. I think it's more concrete than anything we've done before, but there's been a little breadcrumb trail throughout all of our discography, so you know, there've always been elements that we've sprinkled out here and there.

JM: Can you tell me a little bit about how the songs coalesced? How they get written? Is it more that Dobber sits down at the piano to write? Or is it more like everyone gets together and jams? How do Oceans of Slumber songs get written?

CG: No, it definitely starts with Dobber sitting down at the piano. I guess we're kind of isolationists when it comes to writing. We've had different people join the band and they're like, "I can't wait to write together," and then we're like, "Oh, about that. . ." You know, Dobber sits down alone. He is at the helm of his studio, so he has guitar and all of the things that make the sounds (laughs), and he writes out the songs - - or one of the guys will pitch a riff or pitch a song or parts of something that they want to include and then they go into the machine that is Dobber and them he puts this song together, and then once it's there, then everybody will tweak or change or add their track based on what they can do and how they feel about it as a band. And then once they've all agreed that that's how it’s going to go and they record either a live track or I get a bounce demo. Then I slink away and write to it, and put lyrics and melody and all that. And it doesn't see the light of day until I'm 90% sure that's going to be final for what I'm going to do to it. And then I'll let Dobber hear it. And then I'll reluctantly let everybody else hear it (laughs)

JM: "Reluctantly" meaning the rest of the band, or the rest of us in the world?

CG: Yeah (laughs) The rest of the band. And then we get together and practice and work out the kinks and go to the studio.

JM: Each song does have so much emotional resonance. You used the word "personal," and I really get that these songs are deeply personal, and I think I can hear how that process kinda lends to that.

CG: When I sit down to write, I never think, "I'm writing a song," like, "What is this song gonna be about?" It's more like, "OK, I get this gift of a new song,” and then I listen and I'm like, "What is it asking? What does it need said? What does it want from me? Or what do I need to get out? What does this song bring up inside of me, or bring to mind, or the feelings that it causes?" And then I write that. I almost never think about how other people are gonna feel about what I wrote. Until it's too late (laughs). And then I freak out, and be like, "Oh, what did I say, What did I mean?" And I write it like I'm just writing it for myself. And it's always a surprise or a big awakening when the album comes out and other people have their opinions or their feelings, or what this song means to them, and I'm like, well now it's ours, or now it's different. It just is a different process for me, I guess.

JM: I have to ask now. Can you share 1 or 2 of the moments where someone has had a powerful reaction to a song you've been a part of?

CG: Before the pandemic, I guess we were touring with the “Banished Heart?” And a woman came up to me before the show, I don’t remember where we were, and she was really nervous and really shaky, and she was telling me how she hadn’t been to the venus since before her father had died, and that this was the first time stepping into the venue and the first band that she had come to see and she didn’t know if she would even make it to the show, but that she was just so moved ot be there and so emotional about being there. And she ended up making it through the show and she talked to me afterwards, but it always has stuck with me just how much our music meant to her that she pulled herself out of this grief or out of this fear to come experience it because she felt like it was going to help her heal and get through her grief and get through, you know, that this venue wasn’t going to be haunted for her anymore. And that meant a lot to me.
And then, you know we make serious music and it’s about grief and loss, so I get a lot of people sharing with me about their loss and about their grief. Another that - - I cried. . . I couldn’t. . . I felt really bad about crying, but. . . A mother and her son came to the show, and she was in hospice care, and kinda shouldn't have been out, but this was gonna be her last show. She and her son had bonded over their love for Oceans of Slumber and they wanted to come to this show, and so she was in a wheelchair and her son was pushing her, and they hung out and I met with them and that was really incredible. There’s a very special, very quiet thing to convalescent care, end-of-life care, and for someone to want our music to be a part of that is, I think, tremendously special. And so, those are people I think about often, and I probably think about every time we set off to do a tour. But you know, I’ve had a lot of grief in my life and I’ve lost a lot of people and I don’t mind people sharing that weight because I don’t think it's necessarily just negative or sad; I think it’s very therapeutic and very healing and it’s very kind when people want to sort-of welcome you into that space. I think grief is a very tender thing and it gets treated as such a negative thing sometimes. That has been how our music has been resonating with people, and I guess some of the stories that sleep in my heart still.

JM: Wow, I’m verklempt. That’s a wonderful story. People do connect to your music. I get that too, I have the same emotional reaction to your music. And I recall seeing you live, and the emotion in your performance; I remember you performing with tears in your eyes for certain songs. And that’s a rare thing. I guess there’s no question here. . . (laughs) I’m just saying that’s something I really admire.

CG: (laughs) Thank you.

JM: So, for “Starlight and Ash,” there’s a little bit of a New York City connection to this record. Tell us how Texas and New York came together.

CG: (In Brooklyn accent): We’re Brooklynites now! In Brooklyn! (laughs) We had done some research, and we really wanted to work with a studio that had all the bells and whistles of gear and recording devices and all the gear talk side of recording, and Dobber had done a lot of research and we came across Joel Hamilton with Studio G in Brooklyn. He only works with people whose music he can get behind, and he hit it off with Dobber pretty much right away, and he was super excited about working with us, so we packed up and we stayed the entire month out there to track and do everything. That was a first because we’ve been kind of DIY with some of our previous albums with recording part of it ourselves and staying local, so this ws kind of a big next step for working with a producer, so to speak, and working in the studio, and what is so awesome about Joel is his ability to, I feel like, become a part of the band and help you help yourself, and help you bring to life what you want. And it’s not about “You know what you should do,” or “You should do this,” or switching anything up, he’s just there, and like, “Yeah, that works,” and “We can do that,” and “I think this would be great,” and then, embellishments, and so like, let’s get piano, and background, and synth, and violin, and all sorts of things just going. And it’s very magical and it’s very a lovely, rustic-feeling studio, even for being in Brooklyn, it just has that bare bones, exposed frame, kinda vibe to it.
And yeah, it was right when New York opened post-pandemic, and so everyone was like, “Yeah, we’re out again, and we’re city folks!” And it was summertime, and it was insanity, because we had just come from shutdown Houston, Texas, can’t go anywhere - - I mean, Texas was very bad about shutting down, but things were mellow, no shows or stuff like that. But it was like: airplanes, subways; everybody’s everywhere. It was Gay Pride month, and everything was so bright and outta hand. And so it was a culture shock, for sure. My anxiety was definitely really high, because wow, there’s so many people. And everybody’s so different in New York. From each other, not different from another state or something; the diversity of just that group of people there, from any given block, just such potent, unique people. And it was so nice to just see them getting along. Everybody needs the subway, everybody uses the roads, everybody can just go and come and it doesn’t matter a lot about what you look like and what you’re into, it’s just a busy city. I’ve never done so much walking in my life. Public transportation - - I’ve never ridden the bus in Texas, and there, it was like, we’re on the bus, we’re on a train, we’re on a ferry (laughs). So many options.

JM: As an outsider, I don’t necessarily hear the New York City influence on the album, but I’m sure you guys can hear it. I don’t know if you guys listen to it and go, “yeah, that was a New York thing.”

CG: It’s not so much that, but it’s that Joel is so connected to a lot of other bands and styles that we have loved for a really long time. And he’s worked with all kinds of artists and he is such a old soul type of person that, in being there - - and he’s worked with Nick Cave, he’s worked with Nina Simone - - it was him lending his musical expertise to us in a way that, you know, I’ve never seen Dobber make such fast friend. He’s not a fast friend maker, and they just got to the root of each other, and understand each other in this way, and they continue to be friends. We’re going back up there with Necrofier (Dobber Beverly’s Death Metal band - separate from OoS - JM) to record, and Joel has come down to visit us a couple of times now, and he understands the kind of artists that we are, and I think that that’s what makes their relation and the recording different from just saying, going in and like, “Oh yeah, we worked with this producer, like he produces all these cool people,” you know, it was like, he understood us and we are friends. I don’t know if we were supposed to make friends with him (laughs), but we did. And so now, it’s just been different. And this album, he brought to life the Southern feel of it. In New York, which is a feat that (laughs) I think is the true magic.

JM: I’m still exploring “Starlight and Ash” and finding all these amazing little moments, but I’ve gotta ask you: what are your favorite moments throughout the whole record?

CG: My top favorite moment is the ending of “Salvation.” Just the whole song “Salvation.” Dobber wrote the whole song and he wrote the lyrics for that song. And it’s always special to me when I can make his songs fully come to life, and when he gives me the words, I feel like that’s such a special task. And he refuses to sing in front of me, so (laughs), I was like, “Well then, I’ll have to do it.” “Salvation” has been a song that he’s had for awhile, and I was glad that it finally got to come to life on this album. I remember when we were at the studio, they really wanted me to kinda go off at the end, like, really do my thing; open up and riff. And I can riff, but I would say that’s the one area I’m nervous about as a singer. And it’s not like nerves, like, “Oh, I can’t do it” or “It’s not gonna be right,” but, whatever the performance embarrassment and apprehension is. . . Because there’s a vulnerability and there’s a wildness to it that unsettles me, but they’re like, “Nope, you gotta do it.”
And so, I’m like, “Well, kill the mic, let me just practice in there,” but knowing both of them; I was like, “they’re not really gonna kill the mic.” (laughs) They’re gonna still record just in case I do something that they like. So I was like, “Whatever, we’ll just go for it.” And I remember, there’s a frequency or an alignment that moves through my body that I feel like when I get it right that it feels the best. And the daylight coming through the top window when you get that stream, like a sunbeam that comes through. . . I’d shut all the lights off, because I’m a vampire bat child when I have to record (laughs). I need it as dark and cave-like as possible. And it just hit, and it was like a riff that instantaneously I felt like just transported me somewhere else. And it was like I‘m a time traveler when it comes to these songs, and that’s the feel that I was going for. And so, that ending riff over the Gospel kinda chants at the end of “Salvation” is something that - - I love that part, and I loved the process, and kinda getting out of my own way to accomplish that is something that I think about on the album.
And then, the other one is “Red Forest Road.” Just that whole song, I think, is so charging. And it was the other song that was written kinda for Dobber, and I wanna say he lended lyrics on that one too, and it was just. . . there’s just something so energetic and pushing about it. And so, it’s when the chorus kinda changes and there’s this jet sound that comes up, and it sounds like a jet going over your head, and it drops out and there’s like, uh. . . I can’t name the music components. I might be in a band, but I don’t know the musical terms (laughs). And there’s just this silent part and it’s just my lyrics and then it comes crashing back in, and that part always gives me goosebumps; I really like it. I always picture that movie moment when someone’s running down the airplane lane, and then they have to duck because some plane’s coming over; It’s always such a powerful thing; it’s so action-packed, and I like that part a lot.

JM: Thank you so much for coming on. Can you tell us what Oceans of Slumber have in mind for the rest of 2022 and 2023?

CG: Thank you, it’s been very fantastic talking with you. Oceans, we have a tour coming up at the end of August. It’s a small U.S. run; we’re gonna try and kinda break up the U.S. into four separate runs, so this will be the first one. And then, we’re trying to figure out, I guess, some festivals and getting over to Europe sometime soon, maybe, into next year. But who knows with the state of traveling and things always changing?
I’ve started a Patreon as a way for people to stay connected. It’s connected to Discord, which I think is really cute, and I’ve been probably sending way too many of the weird little jumpy emojis, but it lets people kinda have a direct line to me, and keeping up, because, eh, you know, social media can be a little daunting sometimes, and a little toxic. It’s just a nice break to make your own space, and so that’s what I’ve tried to do. And then, with any other projects that are coming up, that’s where people can find out about them.
Oceans of Slumber is fully in Tour Mode and trying to just get back live in front of people, and we’re so excited, so excited. We missed the whole album cycle of doing stuff, and so, we definitely don’t want to do that with this one.

Oceans of Slumber Official website: Oceans of Slumber Official website: https://oceansofslumber.com/